Comment from: John Coonen [Visitor] · http://coffeegroup.us
Look past the language this poster used, and realize, he communicates a point that the MARKET shares with him, and we in the Joomla community need to develop a positive strategy not to combat it, but to capitalize (and help others capitalize) from it.

Comments like this one are actually opportunities for folks like us to help persuade the 4.6 million potential customers out there who don't know what the hell Joomla is, but are in the market for a better solution.
20/06/08 @ 07:18
Comment from: Daniel [Member] Email
A good point John, but how to is the question?

Take Paul's stance and vilify commercial OSDs to get them on side and make ad revenue?

Not a good stance if you want to keep friends. :(

I can't think of much else though. I am open to suggestions though. :)
20/06/08 @ 08:38
Comment from: John Coonen [Visitor] · http://www.coffeegroup.us
I didn't say agree with Paul, just re-direct. Much less energy wasted, and more people involved in the discussion.

He brings up some valid points which the OS community needs to deal with.
20/06/08 @ 08:43
Comment from: Daniel [Member] Email
I agree with you, and I wasn't being sarcastic.

I am interested in hearing a way to benefit from it, but can't think of one, other than that above.

How do you get people to pay who refuse to?

You could aim to get the income from elsewhere, leveraging those people, e.g. ads. But this doesn't leverage them anymore than those willing to pay for quality.
20/06/08 @ 08:47
Comment from: Dan kNuass [Visitor] · http://www.newlocalmedia.com
That's too bad Paul took down the post and comments. I wasn't insulted or mad about it--I thought it started a good discussion and had added some ramblings about the economics, which recently got back to the front of my mind. It was good to stumble on Dan's reply, find Paul's post, and run into Victor and others there, find out what's going on with people in the developer community whose stuff I've used. Not a mob reaction at all, just common interests and ideas coming together.

I agree with Mr. Coonen, and you were a bit hard on Paul, Dan, though not unfair, and he did "step in it."

What if the JCDA got a little more publicly active and organized, offered ways for people like me to express support? People like me: not an extension developer but someone who might release free alterred GPL extensions or templates, even sell templates someday--though no plans too. For the most part I build sites for a side income, and I use a mixture of free and commercial templates and extensions when I'm using Joomla. (I don't just use Joomla.)

With Joomla I like having a lot of free extensions and also a choice of inexpensive commercial ones that have to prove they are worth paying for by being better and/or adding other value that the free alternatives lack.

I do think it is natural and has to be accepted that a lot of us start like Paul playing with all the neat free Joomla stuff, and then it's a surprise that unlike other GPL CMSes, there are all these commercial templates and extensions, because only a few people decide they want to do that, and a smaller number actually try to start businesses.

I think what needs to happen is not a delegitimization of either the free or commercial material, as if there can only be one and you are for or against one or the other. What needs to happen is more awareness of the synergy and the fact that there is a growing segment of the Joomla ecosystem that is commercial or semi-commercial, often in non-traditional, innovative ways. How is this a bad thing? Why can't it co-exist productively with the freebie culture? Open Source is probably moving in this direction. If FOSS systems are going to get any purchase in enterprise level deployments, it will be because you can establish business (contractual, financial transaction-based) relationships with FOSS providers for products, services, support, etc. The only way a business will buy into a pure GPL system is if they are paying someone in-house or on a retainer or contractor relationship to provide the functionality, security, updates, etc. Why is it "OK" if someone does this as a service with all GPL products but "not OK" if someone else does it with some differently GPL or non-GPL materials mixed in with the GPL stuff?

If you are using my commercial extension and I guarantee it or offer support, then that is a value you can't get if I just install someone else's GPL extension and you are now dfependent on them for development and support with me just being a middle-man. What about free as in FREEDOM and independence? A lot of GPL business as usual seems really aimed at creating client dependencies on GPL software that no one can guarantee. Look at GPL CMSes defer responsibility for security problems in third-party extensions. If those extensions are in use on an enterprise site but not backed by a direct relationship with the end user and obligation to maintain them, then their attractiveness for high-level use drops off completely.

23/06/08 @ 07:44
Comment from: James S [Visitor]
Hey Daniel,

Just read the previous entry and this entry and I agree with you entirely. The mindset of a lot of people appears to be omnidirectional. Want everything for nothing. I see that quite a lot with my work.

Funny thing that I find is if you deny giving away of your time/work etc... for free, some come back and pay *properly*. Funny world ain't it

:)
26/06/08 @ 10:58
Comment from: Stephanie Schmidt [Visitor] · http://dwtutoirals.com
*****
One thing to note about commercial extensions in the Joomla! community is that they are typically extensions you would only "need" for a commercial website. Not to mention the fact that for most commercial extensions there are non-commercial alternatives.
07/07/08 @ 08:35

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